What's the alternatives in IT? Chained to a hell-desk for minimum wage or being outsourced to Bangalore on a whim? (IT staff tell children not to follow in their footsteps, www.computing.co.uk/2221003)
IT is now a service industry within business, akin to the lightbulbs and toilets. Zero control, less respect. Why on earth would you want your kids to make the same mistakes as yourself?

Bill, submitted on the web

Exams are the lazy way to solve the problem of student plagiarism (Write 100 lines: "I must not outsource my homework to India", markkobayashihillary.computing.co.uk).

I've been using interviews with students for over a decade to address the possibility that a student has plagiarised their programming assignments. Having to explain your code and make changes to the code in an interview is a very effective way of guaranteeing that the student actually wrote the code, or at the very least understands the code well.

Martin, submitted on the web

We have had freelance, consultant, expert advisers, and now the word outsourcing has become a political conundrum (We want your views on outsourcing, markkobayashihillary.computing.co.uk). Why? Because of the money.

In India and other places they take less money per day to do "apparently" the same thing, so they are taking our jobs, no? The real issue is that corporations are all about making profit to pay the shareholders back for their loan (shares) with interest (dividends) as well as the staff.

If they only consider it as money then shame on them. They would do better to consider value for money.
The results will show where you should put the work out to. Getting good results in India? Scotland? Milton Keynes? That's the issue. It's called service. Let's talk about that telephone answering machine and the  robots on the phone. There is some justified rebellion swelling on this one.

Jackie Mackay

Building Schools for the Future is perceived by some as a great invasion for schools (Vice-like grip,
letters.computing.co.uk).

John Jones needs to go into schools and see the excellent work that IT staff provide. I manage a team of six who are employed by the school to provide support exceeding the standards set out by Becta and private firms.

This high standard will be eroded and the best practice we employ will be replaced by private companies with shareholders who are more important than students.

John Richards

The expertise built up through the Fujitsu contracts will be invaluable to the NHS (Fujitsu may lay off 700 NHS IT programme workers, www.computing.co.uk/2219727).

It seems essential that the NHS should negotiate a transfer of Fujitsu staff and directly manage their
continued work on the National Programme for IT. Of course there would have to be changes to top-level programme management, but perhaps more local involvement could be factored in this time.

When will the government learn that automatic outsourcing of development and programme management is not the way to transform public sector IT?

Patrick Newman

I have been consulting in IT for 20 years in 10 countries. The sub-continental threat to demand for my
talent has been around for some time (Lloyds TSB cuts are a sign of testing times, markkobayashihillary.computing.co.uk).

I have always maintained the attitude of "pay me now - or you'll pay me later" as I have been brought in to straighten out more offshore attempts than I have bothered counting.

Herman Gise

I agree that tasks such as software testing can be done elsewhere (Lloyds TSB cuts are a sign of testing times, markkobayashihillary.computing.co.uk).

But the combined effects of outsourcing, offshoring, onshoring, right-sourcing and the countless other sourcing variations make the IT industry an awful place to work. 

The bottom line is: if the company doesn't need you it throws you on the scrapheap. We don't even have the same employment protection as that of our European counterparts.

Rob, submitted on the web

Reading the press, it appears there is a shortage of IT staff in the UK. With the rising costs of employment and the effects of the credit crunch on companies' willingness to take on more staff, firms are looking to alternatives - one of these being offshoring (Banks shift more IT offshore).

Working at one of the major banks in the UK, I ask whether or not this is an option that should be explored. There are many talented and experienced local people on whom companies are closing their doors in favour of cost savings from offshoring.

Offshoring has its time and place, but it should not be for the entire IT function.

The bank I work for has been exploring offshoring to India for about two years. Although the costs have not been reduced and projects are failing miserably, they have been marketed as successful and cost-effective, allowing management to continue with redundancies and to increase the number of offshored employees.

Costs of offshoring have been hidden under other expenses on balance sheets, or picked up by other projects with only local resources.

Even when projects come in late or over budget, they are marketed as successful because you need to accommodate transition and handover periods.

The truly offshored resources are cheaper than local contractors. But for every local contractor replaced, two or three offshored employees pick up the work.

If projects still fail, external consultancies are brought in to fix the mess. This results in significant costs which again are not associated with the project, further skewing data.

Companies should wake up and realise there are no significant cost savings involved. No benefits have been achieved from offshoring in so many areas and it is being felt by local staff. Hopefully, the idea will be limited to aspects of business where actual benefits can be realised.

A bank employee who wishes to remain anonymous

I have to point out that the final comment in Jose's letter is a bit misleading - it implies that secondary schools are responsible for wasting huge amounts of public money on the Building Schools for the Future (BSF) implementation (Problem solved? Letters.computing.co.uk).

In my region, network managers at secondary schools have been told by the local authority that to qualify for BSF funding, schools will be obliged to buy into the full BSF package - the managed IT solution is not optional, or modular, it is compulsory; schools will have to take everything, irrespective of how relevant or useful they will find it or whether they want it or not.

The implication is that failure to do so will result in the school not being granted its BSF funding allocation - in effect, being held to ransom for perhaps wanting to work to locally-derived and proven best practices that may not necessarily agree with the BSF "one size fits all" ideal.

Those who accuse schools of massive wastage of public money should perhaps first look to the local authorities who are struggling to interpret then implement the government's BSF initiative.

Jim Christie

Being in a position to support eight schools, one of them a community college, I have a problem with the statement: "it is time to build a new professional IT workforce in schools" (Vice-like grip, letters.computing.co.uk).

I interact regularly with the IT managers from a number of secondary schools, and I can assure you that nobody aims to say "no".

Probably any IT manager can do a far better job if given the same budgets as available in BSF. Seeing as there is such massive budget shortfalls in education IT,  innovation flourishes - it simply has to. Need has led me to develop many  software utilities aimed specifically at schools.

Schools connect via something called national grids for learning, and the various grids do have stringent
firewall rules in place.

While I will be the first to point out how infuriatingly difficult this layer of red tape can be, that same inflexibility remains the only thing keeping many primary schools secure. So please enlighten us regarding the new and improved way of doing things? And do you know of many people administering networks where hacking tools are run against and from  inside the network virtually on a daily basis?

Yes, we are aware of when it happens, yes, we catch the culprits, and yes, they will be back in school the next day to do it again, as they are  almost not allowed to be  excluded.

Balance that against the level and nature of data schools hold on their networks: full personal details of all staff and students.

On the networks I support, that information is safe, and workstations remain functional. Teachers are happy because there is predictability in the network's overall stability. This simply means they can teach without disruption. And all this on a fraction of the budget you guys have to work with.

My advice to the letter writer is simple: change your attitude. You seem to be  incredibly quick to judge, without being aware of all the facts. Perhaps it is not just old schools that need  rebuilding, but also outdated and judgemental attitudes.

William Nel-Barker

Partnerships for Schools chief executive Tim Byles said: "Building Schools for the Future (BSF) is not about taking things away" (School plan is to build, not demolish).

BSF will not be delivering the IT service, the service provider will, and it will wish to minimise costs to maximise profit.

So while BSF may not take things away, the service provider will - especially the IT technicians from schools - and allocate them centrally to save costs.

Proper consultation is  impossible because of the structure of the project. I participated as a school
governor in a consultation exercise. The local education authority (LEA) BSF IT team imposed last-minute changes in its contract with schools that seriously disadvantaged all the schools.
There was nothing the school governors could do about it. We could only discuss the school-LEA agreement, and not the real driver, the LEA agreement with the service provider.

On career development, some school technicians are working in schools because they want to serve their community and do not want to work for a large corporation.

They knew the job did  not offer much by way of opportunities in the  careerist sense, but offered different prospects.

Their choice to serve an identifiable social unit whose values they share  are destroyed by BSF IT.

The fundamental objection to the BSF IT project is that it is bureaucratic and anti-competitive. The LEA chooses the service provider prior to negotiating the terms of the contract, so the other businesses which might have bid are excluded before the exact service is  defined.The alternative approach would be to set interoperability standards and standard service contracts to create a genuine market in which
local suppliers and service  organisations could bid, and where individual schools choose to buy a service.

BSF IT is just a way of  diverting public money to large corporations in the guise of providing a service to schools. It is bad for the schools and bad for small UK IT  service providers.

Roger Hill, school governor

I read with interest your interview with Tim Byles regarding Building Schools for the Future (BSF) (School plan is to build, not demolish).

I note that he uses the mantra: "We are in the business of educational transformation; this is not a bricks and mortar project".

However, the examples he quotes are all linked to administration and facilities management rather than teaching and learning or the engagement of reluctant learners.

Where is the talk of personalising learning with engaging online resources sorted by learning type and ability? Where is the access to media-rich learning on an individual basis? Where is the principle of anywhere, anytime learning that allows our most able to access advanced learning material to extend their horizons, while at the same time allowing a child off school to catch up with missed work?

The administration systems are important, and engagement of parents in their children's learning is vital, but the learning activities are missing from this view of BSF. The danger of BSF is
re-creating the same education system in new buildings, and that will not transform education.

Our children deserve better learning environments than the tired and worn out schools they occupy. BSF is a long overdue investment in our education infrastructure and we must applaud our government for making this commitment. All is far from perfect, however. Is educational transformation at the forefront when schools are told by architects that, because of heat considerations, there should be no more than five PCs in a classroom?

Children find learning most engaging when they are trying something new in an environment where they feel safe and secure in case something goes wrong.

Well, BSF is certainly trying something new but as for feeling safe and secure?

Stephen Douglas
City Learning Centre Manager

John Jones appears to have all the answers with regard to Building Schools for the Future (BSF) and seems to be putting the blame squarely on IT support staff (Vice-like grip, letters.computing.co.uk).

Maybe if the education system employed teachers who were actually IT-competent, and did more to check on what the pupils are really trying to do with their computers in lessons rather than concentrate on their work, we wouldn't have to block such "innovation".

The only things we have to block is YouTube - because there is little related to education on there - social networking, proxy-bypass and games sites because the pupils cannot control themselves enough to not play games or chat when they should be working.

It gets to the point that we're having to manage behaviour because a teacher cannot.

I've never had to turn a teacher's idea down because of "firewall issues", but I have had to disappoint them when they purchase outdated software designed for Windows 95 or NT or is not designed to be run on a  network because they didn't speak to us first.

Perhaps John has watched far too many TV commercials for teacher training where all the little darlings are polite, friendly and willing to learn.

Instead of "advising",  perhaps he should spend some time in real schools and see the problems we face on a daily basis - threats, abuse, blatant attempts to bypass security, theft and damage.

If the pupils and staff don't respect the equipment we manage, they can hardly expect any respect from us.

Andy Davis

I find it shameful that a person in such a position would apportion blame to technical staff in schools, but fail to mention the years of poor leadership and direction from local authorities when it comes to strategic leadership of IT (Vice-like grip, letters.computing.co.uk).

Surely if local authorities were engaging with schools - as some are - and helping schools move forward to  sustainable models of IT which has significant impact on teaching and learning, leadership and management, and achievement and attainment in schools, comments such as this would not be able to be made.

We should try supporting technical staff in schools.

After all, these are likely to be the same people providing the support in the schools anyway, just under
a different company name, and having to respond based on company and contractual protocol rather than the directives of the senior leaders in the school.

Tony Sheppard, Edugeek.net

Yes - a percentage of schools have bad IT systems and bad IT staff (Consistency is key, letters.computing.co.uk).

The same goes for industry, and for any department in an organisation. The situation should be remedied by cutting out the cancers, not killing the entire organism.

The IT portion of BSF is  using a blanket approach to all schools to fix a problem in a small percentage of schools. Unfortunately, the majority of schools who have superior IT services will be caught under this as well, and the standards decreased.

The BSF-not-so-smart bomb, is going to do far more collateral damage than is worth the problem it's trying to fix.

Marc Blake

There are lots of good and bad things about the BSF programme, but one thing we must not forget is that BSF is not the solution (Consistency is key, letters.computing.co.uk).

If some IT systems in schools are bad, why not create a company that goes to schools every so often to help network managers with problems? Why not set up, manage and send experts to help IT departments in schools? Create policies about standard IT, and help schools with IT problems.

Putting public sector organisations under the umbrella of a private sector company is not solving any problems, it is going to increase them. My managers think so, teachers in my school think so, so what is going on? Why are the top guys not hearing us?

At a previous IT BSF meeting, they told us we have the opportunity to create the classrooms of the future. But suppliers taking the contracts are going to implement their systems, so it's just more of the same - but it will cost more.

I am disappointed that secondary schools are wasting all that taxpayers' money.

Jose, submitted on the web

I share a lot of the concerns voiced over the future of IT provision in schools under Building Schools for the Future (BSF), especially the cost and the lack of flexibility that will result (Must do better: £45bn schools plan fails to impress).

However, we should not glorify what exists. While a lot of schools have excellent IT, some have horrendous setups that are under-invested in and not fit for purpose. These schools are failing their teachers and students, meaning that the government cannot meet its Every Child Matters agenda.

Very soon, students from the age of 14 will be able to study diplomas offered at a different institution to their host school - these locations will need to have joined-up IT for this to work. With the increased dependence on computers for assessment and examinations, standardisation is inevitable and
robust systems will need to be available for all students 24/7, hence some form of managed services will be  required to replace the  existing cottage industry.

Colin Small

As part of one of the teams leading BSF in a large authority and an ex-local authority IT adviser, I feel it necessary to point out that over many years the block in innovation within many - not all - high schools has been the short-sighted view and iron grip of the IT management whose aim in life appears to be to say "no" before hearing the problem (Must do better: £45bn schools plan fails to impress).

It makes me smile when I hear of IT innovation being stifled in schools. Just talk to the countless teachers who have had their ideas rejected because of endless firewall  issues, security risks or apparent incompatibilities.

It is not just old schools that need rebuilding, it is time to build a new, professional IT workforce in schools.

John Jones

What planet is Robert Chapman on? (The lure of the public sector).

Is it planet BSF (Building Schools for the Future), or BSP as we call it in our school Ð Building Schools For Profit?

Has he even had a sniff of working in IT support in a school? Come to work in education IT, he says. Well I did, in 1998 when innovation, dynamism and thinking on your feet were key to driving forward IT provision in schools.

Now it will be a very different proposition - as other people quite rightly point out - when schools' technical staff are downgraded to time-constrained monitor monkeys who may not even work in one place but could be shifted around.

I know plenty of people who have jumped ship in the past three years as they see what is unfolding and would prefer to swim rather than sink with the BSF project.

I am employed in a BSF school and have had to  put up with the stress, heartache, uncertainty and mushroom management of the IT provision. Just the thought of rereading a proposal for one of our almost-built BSF schools sends a shiver down my spine.

I can see it now: wireless everywhere, hundreds of laptops in students' hands, computer-controlled door access all flooded throughout the school and all requiring expert on-the-spot support. It will be a nightmare, especially when the private company renegotiates our contracts after the two protected years, which it will do, and downgrades all the IT staff or even makes some   redundant in the relentless pursuit of profit.

Am I jumping ship? You bet I am, as soon as possible. Get out of IT in education before BSF gets in.

Saul Hudson

I have low pay and no future because of threats about outsourcing to the Atlas Consortium running the Defence Information Infrastructure project (The lure of the public sector).

My pay as a network manager is £26,000 - this is after 35 years of service, part of it as a radar engineer. I buy, configure and maintain 30 servers on a network of 1,500 workstations.

There are two people looking after the network and four low-skilled operator maintainers looking after more than 2,000 workstations and notebooks.

My advice: do not work for the public sector.

Ron Bumstead

I am an IT manager in the education sector and have recently been involved with Building Schools for the Future (BSF).

The concept is that IT suppliers will support networks used in schools and will improve the technology and be cheaper (All education IT is to be outsourced, letters.computing.co.uk).

The price was originally £60 per pupil, but has been increased to more than £150 per pupil, meaning a school of 2000 students would have to pay £300,000 per year.

This is about three times more expensive, for a far inferior service. For example, password changes can take up to 15 minutes; new user accounts can take up to a day and new software needs to be approved and can take six months.

In addition, the secondary school that I support was told to remove certain equipment because it was too advanced and would not  be supported. Equipment needed to be replaced, at  the cost of £850,000.

While money has been given to schools in the short term, at £300,000 per year this will soon be used -
without the commitment  of any future funding.

All equipment needs to be purchased via the BSF  catalogue. These prices are on average 30 per cent more than anyone else, because they include the support costs, even though if the item is a replacement, the support has been paid for already.

A concerned education worker and taxpayer

May I enter the debate on extending Freedom of Information (FoI) to private sector contractors? (Law change will raise costs for local council IT, www.computing.co.uk/2209584).

FoI was introduced with four main aims: openness, accountability, democracy, and inclusive access. Experience over the past three years shows the FoI Act has improved access to information for ordinary citizens.

Many private sector bodies already come under the scope of FoI. For example, public utilities delivered by privatised shareholder companies, such as gas, water or power; or local authority contractors providing waste, landfill, or road maintenance services.

Nearly all larger public  authorities have adopted the principle of consulting with commercial third parties where an information  request relates to their  business with the authority. Designating private sector providers as request handlers is just a logical step in this evolving bill of rights.

The new proposals may actually reduce bureaucracy. Currently, a request for  information about private sector work means consulting with the contractors. This creates additional  correspondence – when all parties are under pressure to meet the 20-day timeline

I challenge Socitm’s assertion that all organisations subject to FoI must have an employee dedicated to this work. Having worked with the legislation since 2001, I have never come across any obligation to have a single FoI expert. It is good practice, but only a few large councils have an FoI specialist.
Please do not knock FoI. It is improving understanding and trust in government processes. There is no
evidence it is reducing the quality of private sector IT services. This type of legal regime is a must in modern democracies and UK FoI is well crafted, well implemented and is here to stay.

Colin Tyc

Robert Chapman fails to mention that thanks to the Building Schools for the Future (BSF) programme, practically all technical IT staff in schools will be outsourced to private companies (The lure of the public sector, www.computing.co.uk/2210507).

The remaining teaching staff are severely restricted in their ability to innovate without sound technical backup, which the replacement toner-drones will be unable to provide.

J Wiltshire

Yes, come work in education, for tuppence a day and a cup of hot gravel (The lure of the public sector, www.computing.co.uk/2210507).

Well, until Building Schools for the Future (BSF) causes you and your job to be outsourced, so that you end up being regraded from network manager to mouse technician.

Or your new school has big lovely IT suites full of fancy wireless and spanking new whiteboards and your server room is downsized to one slightly smaller than the cleaner’s broom cupboard you now have to share with the cleaning supplies.

Watch out Mildred, don’t put that open bottle of bleach on the server. No, it is not a tray for your cup of tea, whoops too late… and too late to halt the tide of BSF.

Name withheld on request

As an IT manager working in the education sector, I disagree with the comment that "Building Schools for the Future (BSF) is providing many opportunities for innovation in the education sector" (The lure of the public sector).

Unfortunately, this is simply not true - IT BSF is about putting a one-size-fits-all approach into schools,
installing a managed service, run by companies that are more interested in profit than in the education of future generations.

Innovation in IT will be taken away from IT professionals and teachers in schools and placed in the hands of private sector companies, away from those who care, and given to those who want their Christmas bonus.

The article states that "IT managers and directors are often ahead of their private sector colleagues", and this is true, however, under BSF, those IT managers and  directors will either be  transferred to the private sector company or made  redundant. Under BSF, there will not be any IT professionals in education - it will all be outsourced.

The "dynamism, innovation and pace" of IT in education will die with BSF, as schools are forced to adopt a system over which they have no control, and no ability to tailor the IT facilities to enhance the teaching and learning of those whose education is in our hands.

IT managers sometimes get a bad reputation from teachers in schools for not seeming to be flexible enough - due to the need to balance the needs of teaching with providing a stable and functional IT system.

They are in for a shock  under BSF when they find the school has no real control over the flexibility and resources of their IT provision.The NHS project has taught this government nothing because it continues to try to shoehorn everything into the middle ground.

Marc Blake

Well, there you have it – just outsource everything to India (Outsourcing and the lack of skilled UK IT workers, knowledge.computing.co.uk). Of course, you will have to have some moron with a degree in marketing to manage your IT outsourcing.

It is strange that business wants the smart IT people to have the skills of the people who could not make it in computer science or IT, and had to settle instead for marketing and business administration.

I remember a programming instructor I had in college who would remark on students who did not attend their lessons: “Tell them there is plenty of room in marketing.”

The problem is that firms end up with a lot of people with business and marketing degrees telling technology people what skills they need, and not surprisingly they seem to think that communication and business skills are more important than technical acumen.

Just outsource everything and put us out of our misery.

Sam, submitted on the web

It is often seen as prudent for companies to outsource their IT to suppliers offering services based on cheaper but equally skilled labour from the other side of the world (BAA signs LogicaCMG deal).

At BAA, IT is not just about skills, it is also about industry knowledge and expertise that cannot be gained overnight by a company such as Logica, which might contract out work to an Indian industrial estate.

Outsourcing might save some money, but it can introduce significant risk, something that the airlines do not and will not accept.

And if it all goes wrong, the customer will not accept the situation either.

Anonymous, submitted on the web

It was nice to see a well-balanced post that opens up the discussion of the effects of outsourcing (markkobayashihillary.computing.co.uk).

The current fixation is on the lack of congruence between IT and the business. Is this not a direct result of outsourcing the people who knew how to fit services together?

Rob, submitted on the web

What you say is true (The world is going to India, Outsourcing blog, markkobayashihillary.computing.co.uk).

IBM has its largest operation outside the US in India. Indian brains are tapped by all international giants for cutting-edge research work. GE, Siemens, Merck, Microsoft, Oracle – you name it, all have research and development operations in India.

The world’s largest bank, food and beverage, insurance, steel and pharmaceutical companies are all headed by Indian chief executives. India itself is kind of a mini-Europe.

Jay, submitted on the web

What you say is true (The world is going to India, Outsourcing blog). IBM has its largest operation outside the US in India. Indian brains are tapped by all international giants for cutting-edge research work. GE, Siemens, Merck, Microsoft, Oracle – you name it, all have research and development operations in India.

The world’s largest bank, food and beverage, insurance, steel and pharmaceutical companies are all headed by Indian chief executives. India itself is kind of a mini-Europe.

Jay, submitted on the web

I work for an IT consultancy specialising in the investment banking industry and we are trying to formulate a strategy around the impact of offshore outsourcing (Stemming the tidal effects of offshoring, Sandra Smith's blog, sandrasmith.computing.co.uk).

We have offices in the UK, China, the US and the Philippines, and we use a successful near-shore/far-shore mix to provide a cost-efficient solution with the expected quality. I completely agree that this model will work for the near future but is not sustainable long term, and we will continue to struggle to find near-shore people with the relevant skills.

Some things we are considering include partnering with other companies to collaborate and train people in technical/business skills; working with universities to design courses around how we see the industry moving; and investing in near-shore technical roles even though this will hit the margin in the short term.

The alternative is that wages will rise as there will be fewer high-end technical consultants to choose from. This will make the contract market expand and we will lose good people to it.

Dominic Murphy

I recently worked for a large consultancy firm on a government project. At least half the consultancy team were foreign staff on short-term visas, renewed on a rolling basis - every few months the staff were sent home for a few weeks then flown back on fresh visas (Are work permits for IT professionals being abused? Employment matters blog, peterskyte.computing.co.uk).

None of them had especially rare skills that could not have been sourced within the UK - I knew UK developers with these skills who were out of work at the time.

Some of these foreign staff were very good, others were inexperienced or just plain incompetent. But it did not matter because they were all on Indian salaries plus tax-free UK expenses, while being charged out to the client at the same rate as the few UK contractors on the project - which was itself about twice the actual rate paid to the UK contractors - so the consultancy was making a vast profit on them.

It was more profitable for the consultancy to bring in foreign workers to cover for their incompetent colleagues, than to hire an experienced but more expensive UK developer to replace them.

Meanwhile, the government client was barred by Treasury rules from hiring its own contract staff directly, even though it would have been much cheaper and more beneficial to the project than paying inflated rates for poor quality foreign staff on revolving door visas.

And the bone-headed government isn't even making any money on tax revenues from these deals, because neither the foreign staff nor the consultancy companies pay much in the way of taxes.

Name withheld on request

I am surprised that heads of IT are concerned about offshoring IT jobs to cheap labour countries (Stemming the tidal effects of offshoring, Sandra Smith's blog, sandrasmith.computing.co.uk).

There are plenty of skilled workers who are unemployed and have been replaced by cheap labour - good or bad.

Yes, in the near future there will be less skilled IT expertise, but whose fault is it? Is it management, accountants or government who allow organisations to recruit employees outside the country of origin?
If heads of IT management are truly concerned they should stop and prevent the short-term cost saving - if any - of offshoring.

Amanada Yusuf

Andrew Parker makes some good points (Outsourcing must not be a battle), but what a study cannot uncover is that innovation is something that occurs over time, not at the moment of signing the deal.

Assuming the contract is sensible, the client is still responsible for creating an environment that not only encourages innovation, but also measures it as part of the overall engagement scorecard.

I have worked with more than 20 outsourcing client engagements to develop the governance processes, and have found that clients sometimes create conditions which make service provider innovation impossible.

Clients often retain the very people who should go to the service provider to ensure innovation, so denying the service provider the most knowledgeable people, as well as creating immediate micromanagement and discord in the relationship.

Andrew Parker says owners of outsourcing relationships should make sure their colleagues appreciate the service provider innovating to hold down costs. He should try to walk in the shoes of a real owner of an outsourcing deal - often the most thankless and politically-charged role in an organisation.

Customers only care about themselves, not the service provider.  Relationship owners should focus on making sure that service levels really meet the needs of the consumers of the service. This is an area where I have frequently seen service levels revised, sometimes too late to correct consumer perceptions, which are hard to change once set.

Finally, clients frequently take far too long to raise issues that are impediments to the services and to innovation, partly through lack of experience but perhaps partly because they are afraid to damage their 'partnership'.

Allowing issues to fester is very damaging to a services relationship. For clients seeking innovation, intelligent management and sensitivity to the fact that the service provider's people are human beings are prerequisites to achieving a relationship in which innovation is possible.

Cynthia Batty

The European and UK IT services industry in general, and LogicaCMG in particular, has sailed rougher waters than these (Are Indian rivals to blame for LogicaCMG’s problems? Talking outsourcing blog, markkobayashihillary.computing.co.uk).

Professionals in India have a low cost base and technical skills. But they do not have the management capabilities of European operators.

Bola Egunjobi

So we have effectively outsourced the problem of employees being isolated from their work (The psychology of outsourcing, Talking outsourcing blog, markkobayashihillary.computing.co.uk). When I started in IT I was close to the user and could fix or repair most problems quickly.

Now after a decade of service management my key performance indicators are being met as well as my service level agreements but the users - sorry, customers - are unhappy. They feel as disconnected from the enterprise as does the person doing the programmimg.

Rob, submitted on the web

IT outsourcing has been put under the spotlight after the Forrester Research industry report (UK leads £3.8bn outsourcing drive across Europe) and it is reassuring that the UK has played a significant part in its recent growth.

However, this growth does not mean that the industry has it right. There is still much confusion when it comes to outsourcing deals (The three steps to outsourcing, Forrester blog, forrester.computing.co.uk).
Many contracts require constant reassessment or are scrapped before they come to fruition, mainly because of a misalignment of objectives at the start, inability to flex with the needs of the client organisation or a failure to manage progress closely enough. Companies need a solid partnership with their service providers to ensure they have clear milestones.

Trust is paramount in relationships, and there is no room for ambiguity when projects are undertaken. Both parties need to focus more on the business objectives of deals and not dwell on the contract and the commercial terms.

Robert Morley, Perot Systems

I read with interest, and not a little anger mixed with disgust, the story concerning the decline in students taking IT studies at A-level (Decline in IT students threatens UK success). My hackles rose even more when I delved further through the newspaper, and read about HCL (HCL outperforms rival Indian outsourcers).

Perhaps IT managers should stop and think for a while. The people complaining about the skills shortage are the same people who make decisions to outsource IT roles, successfully exporting jobs and skills.
Any 16-year-old with half a brain, seeing the mania for outsourcing and offshoring that has prevailed in the UK in the past few years, will surely think twice about pursuing IT as a career. Result? The decline in students, and not so much loss as complete evaporation of skills.

So come on all you clever managers out there - take a look at what you're really achieving. You are the people who can stop the leeching of talent and ability from the UK, by showing there is a future in an IT career here.

Ted Tann-Watson

Partnership in an outsourcing contract runs both ways - with the service provider and the customer (The price of partnership, Outsourcing blog, markkobayashihillary.computing.co.uk).

In a number of instances the customer is the one that takes the 'high road' and does not communicate the partnership message within its organisation. It also becomes a cultural issue when vendors in India are not willing to say no to push more work for themselves.

I advise smaller firms to realise that they are small in size, and go with suppliers who will meet their needs rather than major players such as Infosys or TCS. There is an opportunity to create a true partnership model with suppliers who will give you the tier-one client status.

Prashant Kumar

Outsourcing is no longer just about controlling cost (Cost control key to outsourcing deals). It has been one of the key drivers in the past, but projects are now about adding value to the business, while making efficiencies. There is little point in outsourcing a function with guaranteed returns if it leads to extra expenditure and resources in other areas.

Large-scale and long-term outsourcing projects will always have a role to play, but their success doesn’t have to hinge on cost savings. For suppliers it’s about being flexible and adaptable to providers’ changing business needs and adding value at every opportunity.

John Tilley
Perot Systems Europe

Martyn Hart commends Lloyds TSB for deciding to close its Indian call centre, pointing out that offshoring customer contact is potentially dangerous (Letters, 22 March).

Is it more dangerous for customer relations than obliging me to ring the UK call centre six times, waiting on average 20 minutes each time and still leaving me without an answer to my question?

TA Ranson

I am not convinced that the era of huge outsourcing deals is over (Is the outsourcing mega-deal dead? computing.co.uk/2184760). You say £7bn of outsourcing deals is up for renewal this year, but we should remember that this is spread over a number of contracts, which means that probably none of them is really that mega.
When customers multi-source they are pushing contract governance responsibility back in-house. A better, hybrid approach would be consortium contracting, which is common in the public sector. This places the governance risk on the prime contractor. Customers are still not geared up to manage a multitude of suppliers.
David Meredith SJ Berwin LLP

I have no issue with employing foreign IT staff if this is really expedient (We should welcome overseas IT staff, 1 March).
But what irritates me is the reluctance to spend money on training existing skilled workers and the development IT, which is still perceived as a money-hungry part of their business.
Why not invest in quality IT systems, in-house developed and with all the benefits of having a specialist staff, dedicated to the company – people who will still be there to maintain and enhance the systems in years to come? In short, staff with the experience to support the most important aspect of any company's business.
Remember – if your system crashes, your company will be dead within a week, if you cannot get it back. If you never spent another penny on marketing and advertising, you would still be in business, provided your company product is a good one.
There are many who would provide quality IT service given half a chance. Unfortunately, like other industry sectors, fashionable views prevail. I fear that fashion-slavishness will eventually kill British business.
Paul Kemp

I would challenge Emma Nash’s assertion that no one is complaining about the quality of the work carried out by overseas IT workers (We should welcome overseas IT staff, 1 March).
Many of them have been raised under a bureaucratic Raj. They do not challenge or query customer requirements – they are often order-takers, and would build a concrete life jacket if someone asked them to.
I have sometimes had opt against offering jobs to UK and EU nationals with such strong accents that I could not understand them. But if I have difficulty understanding some Indian contractors when they are speaking my native tongue, how much more difficult must it be for my clients in France and Italy for whom English is not their first language? If I tried to replace these Indian staff I run the risk of being called racist.
Stories abound of employers who laid off UK nationals to bring in cheaper Indian staff, who do not take work back to India, but have been resident here in UK ever since – an abuse of the work permit system that our government fails to supervise.
Name withheld on request

Perhaps Emma Nash's column (We should welcome overseas IT staff, 1 March) would have been more aptly headed, 'We should welcome cheap Indian IT staff'.
Does she think that the extra 47 per cent arrived without displacing local staff? Would she welcome a huge increase in working visas for journalist and writers?
A friend of mine who works at BT has just recently been offered voluntary redundancy because his skills no longer meet the business needs of the company. This is despite him being a competent youngish developer with Oracle and Business Objects skills. I use the word ‘youngish’ because this will be all too relevant when he starts looking for another job.
Having worked in IT for many years, I have noticed that while many Indian workers are very competent, a not insignificant percentage are pretty poor. Good or bad, the level of integration with local staff is almost non-existent.
Neil Baxter

I am afraid you have been misled by Lloyds TSB’s spin (Lloyds TSB closes Indian call centre, computing.co.uk/2184651). To suggest Mumbai was for overflow calls is a recent invention.
If there is now a significantly reduced demand for telephony staff, why is the bank offering high levels of overtime at its UK call centres where it has acknowledged it has significantly increased levels of recruitment?
The interactive voice recognition software that is being introduced is an attempt to save face over the closure. Offshoring has met with substantial customer hostility and this is the real reason for the closure.
Steve Tatlow Lloyds TSB Group Union

I commend Lloyds TSB on its brave decision (Lloyds TSB closes Indian call centre, computing.co.uk/2184651).
This was an arrangement that was not working for Lloyds, so bringing the work back to the UK was a sensible move. Originally many firms decided to offshore because of cost reductions, but are realising that the reputation of a company is crucial, a factor beyond cost.
Offshoring customer contact is potentially dagerous, as this is an area of cultural sensitivity. Customers can often feel alienated by being transferred to a voice away from the UK.
Outsourcing and offshoring still have a place in Lloyds’ sourcing strategies, and rightly so. But costs need to be balanced against perceptions of customers and shareholders.
Martyn Hart National Outsourcing Association